Transcript
Mark:
Welcome to PeopleTech, the podcast with the HCM technology report. I’m Mark Feffer. My guest today is Bridget Quinn Kirchner. She’s the senior director of client experience at the ADP Company Work Market. We’re going to talk about the dynamics of contingent work, the mindset of contingent workers, how experience shapes up for them, and understanding their contribution to a business. All on this edition of PeopleTech. Hi, Bridget, it’s nice to see you. Could you tell me about Work Market? I mean, would you say it’s a marketplace or more than a marketplace, or how do you describe it?
Bridget:
So I wouldn’t actually describe it as a marketplace. I think marketplace is a piece of what Work Market is. The way we look at Work Market today is an end-to-end solution for companies to manage their freelance engagement or their gig engagement. And marketplace is one of those pieces, but we drive with the technology and compliment with the marketplace. And from a worker standpoint, it’s a place where they can go and find work and work with clients of Work Market and ADP using either a desktop or a mobile app.
Mark:
Now there’s a lot of talk today about flexible work and new ways of working and getting things done. How do you see the labor market changing in terms of gig work, contingent work, traditional full-time work?
Bridget:
Well, I specialize more in the freelance and gig side, but when we look at research and data, we look at it from both ends. And freelance isn’t new by any means and the concept of freelance. So we’ve had a steady, incremental growth for as long as I can remember. There have been new freelancers joining the gig economy. But what we found was in this post-pandemic, post-COVID world, a lot of people have taken a step back to consider what they want to do, whether it’s a work life balance, live to work versus work to live. And a lot of people are making choices to move toward freelance economy. And what we see is today, if you look at it in 2022, about 40% of the workforce today is considered freelance. It’s about 66 million people. In the next five years, the research is telling us that about 51% of the workforce will be freelance. So it’s just over half in the next five years, but that’s really incremental growth that continued kind of consistent growth. But what we also find is some of the freelancers are also hybrid, right? They may be a W-2 during the day, and then they have this side gig that they’re using and leveraging their expertise for. So in that number are also W-2 workers that moonlight as freelancers as well.
Mark:
One of the things that when you were talking about this and more people possibly going independent and that makes me think about the Great Resignation.
Bridget:
Right.
Mark:
I’m involved with HR and it’s 2022. So I have to think of the Great Resignation. Could you tell me about the Great Resignation? The thing I can’t figure out is how are rank and file office workers able to put off going back to work for as long as they seem to be doing or are allegedly doing?
Bridget:
I think that’s a great question. And it goes back a little bit to what we talked about earlier, where we are in a situation right now where talent is leading the way a bit. A lot of our businesses are in need of really skilled labor, and leveraging that skillset sometimes means flexibility, but that flexibility doesn’t work for every business. So that really reinforces the need and the value of a contingent workforce. So a mixture of your W-2 workers, your freelance workers, as well as some temporary associates as well. So that value really drives through because that work from home and flexible model may be a plug and play for some companies, but really not for all sometimes
Mark:
For employers, what’s the takeaway with that?
Bridget:
What the research tells me and how we work with our clients at Work Market is we help understand what their business goals are and understand their company’s brand and philosophy and their values. And what we encourage is this variable talent model. So our clients have come from different industries with different goals and different focuses. Therefore, they need different talent. But what we see across the board is a consistent theme of they really need the right talent at the right time for the right price. Sometimes that means it’s a W-2 worker. Sometimes it means it’s a freelance worker, and sometimes there’s something in between. But what we really focus on with them is what they need for their business. And that variable model is really a theme throughout all different businesses that we work with. So we encourage the leverage of that and understanding where you need to push and pull and then helping them to build out that model from a contingent workforce perspective.
Mark:
Are they particularly excited by this, or is it just another sort of business issue to navigate?
Bridget:
Mark, that’s a great question. And there’s no one answer to it because we see variability there in that as well. There are some companies, like creative freelance has been around since the dawn of time. When you think about freelancers, you’re thinking about your graphic designers, and your writers and your podcasters are typically freelancers. What we find is those companies that have been working with that type of labor are very comfortable. They understand the puts and the takes. They understand the regulation. They understand what technology to use to manage that, but that’s not true across the board for everyone. And there are also new instances and new industries that are getting involved in freelance and wanting to adopt this model. But it hasn’t been done in their industry yet. So they are the transformation clients that we work with that are ready to take that plunge, because it’s the right thing for their business, and they see a fit there.
But sometimes that takes more work and you need to help them build out. So depending on what industry they’re in and where their business is today, sometimes it’s very comfortable and they’re excited and ready. And other times they’re hesitant and especially when we talk to their legal departments. It’s really important to make sure you understand the regulation, and how to engage with these workers, and how to make sure you are leveraging their expertise. So leveraging technology like Work Market allows a company a little more risk mitigation, comfort, and transparency into managing that whole process.
Mark:
It also must make the idea of employee experience difficult, where you’ve got more part-timers in one way, shape, or form coming in. You want to make sure that they like working for you, but then they might go out for a while, come back, or they’re only there 10 hours a week, or something like that. How are companies dealing with that? Are they taking that seriously? Or are they just sort of saying, “Okay, these are part-time people. We’re just not going to worry about them.”
Bridget:
Well, we have to be careful there because gig workers are not part-time people. Gig workers are assignment-based. They are very goal-focused on a task or a series of tasks that they’re completing based on their expertise. So how you engage with them, I think, is evolving as well. If we go back to what we talked about earlier, people are really evaluating how they work, when they work, and what that flexibility looks like. So a lot of choice comes in just like you would with a W-2 full-time worker. They want to understand what your brand is. Can they get behind your brand? Do they understand the kind of work you do? Do they understand their contribution to your business? And therefore, do your employees also understand the freelancer’s contribution to your business?
Once you start to build that relationship, you’ll see that transition or that kind of variability becomes less cumbersome because you’ve built a relationship with that worker, that individual, and they now have a connection to your company in the most compliant way possible. But then that engagement turns into something that you can rely on. And then you have an expert in that field and as well, your employees see the benefit in that because sometimes that’s work that they don’t have to worry about, because there’s someone else handling that part of the business.
Mark:
Well, and in hiring these folks for gig work must be… Well, let me ask. Is it becoming more competitive in this labor market or…
Bridget:
Absolutely. Yeah. I think engaging, and what we see is engaging talent across the board regardless of their classification, is very competitive. The good ones will stick around if you have the right connection with them, if you are able to trust and rely on their expertise and really have a good feedback loop. Part of sometimes what we don’t see as a best practice and we highly encourage is you’re working with this worker, take their feedback. Were you a good communicator? Were you clear on what your expectations were? Can we cut out a few steps of back and forth messaging because we stated what needed to happen in the beginning? And therefore that turns into more of a retention. So when I need to call upon Mark for something, I know what he’s good at. We already have a relationship. I know what his guardrails are in that specific area. So that makes it easier.
And then Mark also has a connection to me, because I was clear in my expectations. He’s connected to my brand. He’s behind the type of work we do. He understands his value to my business, and I can call upon him later because I also pay him flexibly. I have a pay card, or I pay him same day, and he doesn’t have to wait and invoice me several times to be able to get paid. So <ark is more inclined to come work with me. So we like to share a lot of these best practices with our clients at Work Market to make sure that they understand how to stay competitive as well, because it is a competitive market regardless if you’re a freelancer or a W-2 worker.
Mark:
How does this impact an employer’s technology? Obviously pretty much everything is touched by tech nowadays.
Bridget:
That’s right. If we’re doing it right, it is. I think.
Mark:
Well, but does this become a big chore for employers or is it something that just kind of knits into everything else they’re doing? How do you think it works?
Bridget:
The way I look at it is if you’re not using the technology, it can be very cumbersome, and a lot of mistakes can be made, and a lot can be lost in translation from an engagement standpoint and a risk standpoint. So today, most organizations are using some type of HRIS solution like ADP’s workforce now to handle all of their W-2 engagement and tracking from payroll, to HR and benefits, to performance reviews. All of it’s in one consolidated system, and they have workflows that the manager and the associate can self service. That helps eliminate processes, manual steps, and also reduces risk. So the engagement is higher as well as the risk is lower. That’s where we want to be.
What organizations need in many cases for their freelance management system is something like Work Market that will, again, manage the end-to-end process and all of those work flows from finding that talent to vetting them, engaging them, paying them, and then later rating them and deciding if you want to work with them again. And if you’re working with the right platform, that platform will plug into your other systems. So integration is going to be really important because freelancers are technically a separate classification, but they’re still people. They’re still talented people that you’re working with that appreciate engagement and respect and communication. So you want to manage them separately, but together as much as you can. So a good integration will help bring all of that together and save you steps and risk in the end as well.
Mark:
My last question is we’re possible coming out the pandemic, depending on who you talk to. Obviously, the last two or three years have been crazy in terms of business and economics. And it’ll probably continue to be crazy for at least a little while. How do you think your business is going to grow over the next, say two or three years? Are you going to be backed by tailwinds that are pushing you along, or are you going to be fighting headwinds because of the economy or some other reason?
Bridget:
I think freelance and especially I’ve been working with the Work Market platform for some time, and I’ve seen both, especially coming out of a pandemic and looks like we’re heading into another kind of difficult economy. I consider change in regulation and things that are happening from a legal perspective with classification as part of our headwind, and then our tailwinds, a variable model really helps companies in a tough economic time. So being able to staff up when they need to, but not necessarily worry about layoffs later and then still really meet the needs of their customers with that expert level talent. So I think it’s a little bit of both, especially going into this, but once you have your guardrails established, that really helps mitigate some of the risk of the headwinds that we talked about, about changing regulation and then using some type of technology to manage all of that. But I think we’re going to see a little bit of both as we continue to head out of hopefully this, this post pandemic and into a more challenging economic time.
Mark:
Well, Bridget, thanks very much for sharing your time and thoughts today.
Bridget:
Appreciate it, Mark. Thanks so much for having me.
Mark:
My guest today has been Bridget Quinn Kirchner, the senior director of client experience at Work Market. And this has been PeopleTech, the podcast of the HCM technology report, where a publication of recruiting daily. We’re also a part of Evergreen Podcasts to see all of their programs visit www.evergreenpodcasts.com. And to keep up with HR technology, visit the HCM technology report every day. We’re the most trusted source of news in the HR tech industry. Find us at www.hcmtechnologyreport.com. I’m Mark Feffer.
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