Transcript
Mark:
Welcome to PeopleTech, the podcast of the HCM Technology Report. I’m Mark Feffer. My guest today is Josh Cohen, the digital marketing director of Upnetic, a small business services platform and the Tarkenton Companies, an agency that helps businesses reach and service the SMB market. For the record, the Tarkenton Companies was founded by Fran Tarkenton, the NFL Hall of Famer who still works as the company’s CEO. Josh and I are going to talk about the issue small businesses face in today’s economy and how technology tools help them keep moving forward all on this addition of PeopleTech. Josh, welcome to the program. It’s nice to see you. What do the Tarkenton Companies do and how does HR fit into it?
Josh:
Yeah, it’s a great question. So we basically provide small business consulting services. I’d say that in short, but what we really do is kind of come in and work with larger corporate clients that are starting to maybe dabble in an area that they haven’t dabbled in before. We have a lot of expertise and experience in certain fields, for instance, marketing. And we’ll come in and take on a project that they’re not sure if this is the right way they want to go, but they kind of want to test it and see how it fits in with their overall vision and goals and the sort. So we’ll come in there. We’ve done this hundreds of times before, so we can kind of guide them through it.
Josh:
It’s basically like a test case for new things that they want to do, or if 98% of their business is for instance in payroll and they want to come in and start looking at tax consultations, legal consultations, something to add to their product portfolio, but they’re not sure they want to invest the full amount of time in building out a team. They can work with us on a short and which will hopefully turn into a long term kind of project and build it out and go from there. So, we’re small to medium size, we’re more nimble. We don’t have a lot of the red tape, so to speak, and we’re just transparent and pretty quick about what we do so that sometimes is refreshing for a big company that has a lot of obstacles to go through, warranted obstacles, but obstacles to go through when trying to make decisions and things. So we’ll come and hear, give them a fresh set eyes and really help get their projects on track and test things out.
Mark:
So, I mean, if your customers are larger companies, you’re obviously not a PEO, is that right?
Josh:
Correct.
Mark:
Well, I’m guessing that technology plays a pretty good role in delivering your services and working with your customers. Can you tell me about your systems and how they’re used by customers, particularly your HR customers?
Josh:
Yeah, sure. So I’d like to think, trying not to use a brand name here, but we’ll rhyme it with smerbo max, if that makes any sense, but we basically, TurboTax, a lot of current tools that are already out there, whether it’s for tax, legal, legal forms. And in this case, Google ads and marketing. A lot of the tools out there, yes, some are more user friendly than others, but either way for small business owners, no matter how user friendly something is, it’s often not super intuitive, it’s not always easy to be good at it. So what we do is try to streamline those items, white label them, so to speak and make them more software as service friendly than they already kind of are.
Josh:
And then obviously a lot of corporate companies that have an app or have some sort of existing technology, it’s not always the most user friendly to say, Hey, we’ve partnered with this new tool or this tool that you’ve seen before and kick them out to that tool. It’s easier to take that, put the right branding around it and then integrate it into whatever technology they already have. It’s a lot easier to stay within the app. Oh you already have this tool. Well, now this tool has this capability. So we do our best, like I say, to integrate with whatever current kind of technology system they already have while also using our experience with that technology, whatever platform it may be and streamlining it and trimming it down so that it’s easy for the user. Because at the end of the day, if it’s not easy, the user is not going to take advantage of it. So the easiest thing is to like I said, get them to be able to wrap their heads around it and then go back to it and make it kind of second nature for them.
Mark:
Let me take a quick step back and just ask you, can you tell me a little bit about your customers? I mean, what size are they or are they like full range, small to large or can you just sort of talk about them a bit?
Josh:
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So at least for this marketing tool, there is really no set standard size of company. I’d say at least they’re all under 50 employees mostly, but they’re in every vertical under the sun. I have one to two person auto repair shops and I have 50 person restaurant franchises in multiple states. I have a semi-retired lawyer working out of his home office, but with a 1000 person, client Rolodex and then I’ve got, again, a 40 person engineering testing lab. They really kind of range and they have all different types of setups. Sometimes the person that’s working in HR isn’t really someone who’s trained in HR, they’re wearing multiple hats. So being able to not only navigate what their business does and what their circumstances are, like how many people they have to help or not help, but also, being able to get across to them when they’re not always proficient in HR specifically or marketing specifically and being able to connect with them and get them the answers and the help that they need, that is always super crucial.
Mark:
So what’s the most important service that you provide, do you think? And I mean that the service by necessity, more than design and in other words, what trouble do you have to help your customers often get out of?
Josh:
For the marketing tool or any tool?
Mark:
Well, for the HR folks, the HR portion.
Josh:
Yeah. Yeah. So I’d say, every kind of tool or service that we offer, they all have different seasons. So we have our tax services, which that season is tax season. So you’ve got two types of tax people. You’ve got people that get it done really ahead of time and are really on top of what they need to do. And it’s pretty much just showing them what services we provide and that’s it. There’s very little handholding. And then there’s the type of business or HR person that not that they forgot taxes, but let’s for lack of a better word, they forgot about taxes and they’re either late or about to be late. And they have anxiety about that, but being able to say, Hey, we have a great service for you. It’s going to be okay. And just, it’s easy to wrap your head around.
Josh:
So I’d say, that from the tax angle. We also have legal consultations as well. And again, there’s no necessarily season for that, but with all of the COVID laws and payment and financing and all that stuff that’s come out, there’s kind of been a season for that. And so we’ll see upticks in that. But again, people are anxious. It’s very complicated stuff that they have questions about, but we have a service that makes it uncomplicated or at least less complicated. So again, being able to fight through that anxiety, because it is their business, it’s their life blood. It’s not just like a fun pet project that these people are calling in to worry about it.
Josh:
It’s something that’s near and dear to them. I will say though, for our marketing tool, marketing is I guess one thing that doesn’t really have a season. It’s kind of always, you always need to be doing it. If you’re not advertising who you are, you’re going to fall behind. I mean, people, especially my generation, we turn to the cell phone. People older than us they might, oh yeah, let me check the yellow pages, word of mouth. I’m not saying any of that is out the door, but it’s a very digital world now. How are you reviewed? Where can I find you? How easy it is to know about you? Because I may not have a particular financial planner I want to use, or a particular auto repair shop that I want to use.
Josh:
I’m going to just look for the best thing that’s closest to me. So again, being able to take a super complicated product, marketing, digital marketing, and bring it to someone who, unlike the other two products that we have that people know that they need it, they don’t know that they need it always. Sometimes they do. But a lot of the times they don’t. And being able to convince them of it and show them how easy it is and getting them to understand it while they’re doing it. Because it’s not a I went to a lawyer, I went to a tax consultant, finished my taxes and I’m done. You’re never really done. You can always be better with marketing. So that I think is like the biggest challenge with it. But I also see this as like the greatest benefit of this service because there’s so many different things that go on with it. It’s not like a one and done type of project. So I think what we’re providing there is super crucial to our clients.
Mark:
Now, are your customers being impacted by the great resignation? In other words, are they having to deal with a lot of employee turnover and difficulty finding new candidates?
Josh:
Yeah, I think so. We’ve seen an uptick. We also, like I said, we offer some business consulting services where people can at least call in and send us emails. And get in touch with a consultant who will they can ask anything ranging from a legal or tax question to I have a question about marketing and hiring and staffing and anything of the sort is pretty much fair game. With that said, yes, we’ve seen a considerable uptick in that. So absolutely. I’d also say from the marketing angle, we haven’t seen too many clients come in looking to do hiring and staffing, but I do hear at least anecdotally people calling in saying, hey, I did have a marketing person that was handling this and now they’re gone for whatever reason.
Josh:
And now obviously COVID, again, even though it’s on the downturn, it’s still kind of flipped the whole economy upside down in every which way. And businesses are struggling to understand how to navigate that because whatever they were doing two years ago, marketing wise or any business wise doesn’t always apply now. So they’re coming to us and a lot of them are saying, Hey, whatever I’ve been doing, it’s not working, please help. Or I used to have help and now I don’t. So yeah, I’ve absolutely seen that across the board. And I don’t think it’s for any one industry. Everyone thinks, oh, my industry is much more worse than anybody else’s. And I honestly don’t see that. I think it’s kind of widespread.
Mark:
Now, what do you suggest your customers do? I mean, when they call for help, what do you tell them?
Josh:
Well, at least from the marketing perspective, one is don’t panic. Like I said, there are a million and one ways to advertise and to promote your business and a million and one ways to get more people in your company to pick up slack, but it’s again, there’s no silver bullets. Anyone trying to sell you a silver bullet is usually lying. With that said, we have all the tools at your disposal that can help you solve those problems, but it’s going to take some time and it’s going to take you leaning in a little bit. But again, hopefully by us demonstrating how easy these products are to use, and if they lean just in just a little bit, it’s just a little bit of legwork on their part, it’ll have tremendous payoff.
Josh:
Like I said, the ones that lean in and say, Hey, I get this service, I get how it fits in with my business, let’s go for it, those are the ones that have the most success and stick around. The ones that come in and kind of want it all to be handled for them and don’t give us any input or don’t, because like I said, it’s a partnership. And you know stuff about your business that I don’t, and I know stuff about how to market and solve business problems that you don’t, but working together, two of us or more is better than one of us trying to do that. It’s kind of an incomplete job either way. So yeah. Number one, don’t panic. Two, trust the process. And three, lean in. Be curious. You care about your business a lot and we care about you caring about our product to help your business. So if we work together, there’s not really much we can’t tackle.
Mark:
Well, let me ask the same question again, but this time focus it on HR.
Josh:
Yeah.
Mark:
When your customers call, because they’ve got a particular challenge around the great resignation or another HR related area, what are you suggesting they do?
Josh:
Yeah. So I think, especially from the hiring angle and again, I’m in that generation that thrives in the great resignation or doesn’t, but mostly thrives. I think the old HR tricks, not that the ones that are still around still make sense, but I think people kind of have to readjust. And I think the one, this is more just a qualitative thing than a quantitative yes, people ask, where do I need to be promoting myself? And I’d say kind of everywhere, everywhere that you can, that you can feasibly do. There are, like I said, different people like to get a new job in different ways, whether that’s, I don’t want to talk to a single person until I have to just like ordering food.
Josh:
So put yourself on every website you can think of. Someone to find information informally through some sort of networking system or networking events, whether or not those are happening as much anymore, but still. And there’s still a lot of it’s who you know. So yes, all those still apply. With that said, I think the biggest part of the great resignation, whether you’re looking to hire or keep the people that you have is just to be more transparent, and open, and levelheaded with your employees or your potential employees.
Josh:
Like I say, I’m a manager. I think there’s a lot of things that companies can do that are basically free. I know everyone worries about finances and can we afford this? And sometimes hefty raises and things like that and bonuses aren’t always in the cards. And I understand that and yes, you can easily go to another job and get a 20, 30% raise. And, but again, who knows if the grass is always greener over there. But with that said, there’s a lot of things you can do that are essentially free. Hosting events where you basically pat each other on the back, giving positive feedback to your group. If you make them feel rewarded and you make them feel like they matter, my generation is not going to leave.
Josh:
Yes, we might realize that it’s time, we’re not learning. We have better opportunities elsewhere than we might, but a lot of people are leaving just to leave. But again, we’re very big on loyalty when loyalty is shown to us. So I think it’s readjust kind of how you treat your current employees and show them you might get bombarded with a million recruiters, but it doesn’t matter. I’m really not entertaining that thought. And then for the people that are coming in express that. I think culture is big, perks are great and money is great, but I think, how that culture is and that respect and that you’re going to be part of a team that actually cares, I think that’ll go a lot farther for you than any fancy perk packages or bonuses will. I don’t know if that makes sense, but that’s kind of how I view it.
Mark:
My last question, I feel like we should call out the fact that the Tarkenton and Tarkenton Companies is Fran Tarkenton, the NFL quarterback. It’s interesting that he started a company like this and I’m sure he’s seen a lot of things over the years in this sector. What’s he think about the state of small business today, do you know?
Josh:
I think he is as doom and gloom as everybody is. I think he is more excited about the state of small business right now, despite how many troubles there are, but he kind of sees it as, I mean, again, I don’t have the data on hand, but to him, at least he knows that it’s kind of a booming area. Yeah. There was a bit of a downturn during COVID, but there’s still that pent up demand to make your own way. For him, I think after he got out of the NFL, he partnered with a bunch of corporate clients and not to say that corporate clients aren’t still the backbone of America, but small business, maybe even more so. Nowadays people think of, oh, I’ll go to college and get a master’s and go work in a big firm.
Josh:
And now that is not always the trend. People are like, I’m going to maybe not go to college. I’m going to forge my own path. I have great ideas and stuff. And so more and more people, whether they’re working at a job full-time and doing something on the side, or just foregoing the full-time job and making whatever they have to sell or promote be their job. I think this is like, small business has become kind of cool. Not just support small business, but run your own small business. Everyone has something to offer. And I think with all the platforms out there where you can promote yourself, I think it’s thriving, whether or not all of those succeed. I think the data there is still going to be the same. A lot are going to fail because people don’t know what they’re doing.
Josh:
So again, any help that we can provide, hopefully we’ll keep that number of failure low. But he kind of sees this as his kind of life’s work, helping small companies that again, because there is that other trend, the other trend is everything is merging and conglomerating. And there’s only one or two things to buy from, or get a service from. And he is kind of not against it, but he thinks America and this country is best and the economy is best when there’s a lot of small businesses that are able to find success. And I think more and more people are trying to plum doing that and trying to see if they can make it work. So I’d say he’s even more excited now than he was when he started this company however so long ago.
Mark:
Josh, it’s been great talking to you. I really appreciate you coming by.
Josh:
You as well. You as well. I absolutely appreciate it. I’m always here to hop on and chat. So thank you.
Mark:
My guest today has been Josh Cohen, digital marketing director for Upnetic. And this has been PeopleTech, the podcast of the HCM Technology Report. We’re a publication of Recruiting Daily. We’re also a part of Evergreen Podcasts. To see all of their programs visit www.evergreenpodcasts.com. And to keep up with HR technology, visit the HCM Technology Report every day. We’re the most trusted source of news in the HR tech industry. Find us at www.hcmtechnologyreport.com. I’m Mark Feffer.
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