Transcript
Mark:
Welcome to PeopleTech, the podcast of the HCM Technology Report. I’m Mark Feffer. My guest today is Matt Robinson, the founder and CEO of Borderless. They offer no-code tools that help you take advantage of virtual reality that opens up a lot of possibilities for deployment, VR production, and solutions throughout the organization. We’ll get into the specifics of their approach and where the sector may be heading on this edition of People Tech.
Hey, Matt. Thanks for coming by. I’ve always been interested in low-code and no-code products. I hadn’t really thought of there being low-code applications in VR before, it’s pretty intriguing. Can you tell me about where you see yourselves going with that and what you think the potential is?
Matt:
Yeah, I think when you look at an expediting new space, like virtual reality much in the early days of developing an app for any platform, the biggest barrier is the learning curve to understanding how to build things, and then the cost to use those specialist skills for companies and individuals alike to build things in these spaces. And so when we looked at the virtual reality market, it’s another space that’s having those same challenges, but they’re amplified because the complexity factor is so much higher. And so because of that, that was our target of like, “How do we lower this barrier to entry for organizations to create in this space?” And so that’s where we focused Borderless in the beginning, which is it may be limited in ultimately what you can put out, right? Very templatized and things as any kind of no-code or low-code solution tends to be. But if it can get people into the space quicker, faster, or we’re going to help things like adoption, we’re going to help people learn faster so they can invest smarter.
Because there’s no doubt about it, right? VR is an expensive space from the hardware to how you develop. But I said, if you can learn very quickly by not having to invest in that code upfront and test things, then we thought that would be a great way to increase adoption.
Mark:
So in terms of end user, who are you targeting? I mean, do you go all the way down to say the practitioner level or do you still need IT to work with this? How do you approach that whole issue?
Matt:
Yep. Our ultimate goal is that students can use the tool. And we actually work with several student groups throughout the country experimenting and testing with the tool today. Kids as young as 13 or 14 years old have been in there and built what we call an experience package within Borderless and been able to deploy it to a headset. All things that would’ve taken specialized coding, previously side loaders, knowledge of Android, very technical skill sets, developer modes. All these things we’ve been able to automate for them and so we want that ultimate simplicity. They’re not our core use case, right? Our focus today is education, we want the core kind of training, education, learning and development folks to be able to get in there and build an experience a training package. And then be able to freely manipulate it at will whenever they want without again, needing to bring in any of their IT team, without needing specialized training. All of it is very user intuitive.
Mark:
So what’s the business environment for you? Are you having to do a lot of education? Do people innately get it? And when you’re trying to actually sell it, what are some of the obstacles you’re running into?
Matt:
Sure. I mean, the reality is that people get very attracted by the no code, low-code solution. But in the end, they enjoy the handholding, right? And so what we’re finding is it’s actually, it’s a way in the door to have conversations that lowers the intimidation factor of getting into, like I said, a very complex new space like virtual reality gives them the comfort that. “Hey, if I had to, I can go into this platform. I can drag and drop, move modules around. I can manipulate what was built for me.” But in reality, almost all of our clients actually instead will hire us to build the things for them, right. And so what they get is they bought the box of Legos, they actually want the whole castle built for them. But then like I said, they’re empowered to change it kind of at will. And I think, I said that’s giving them a comfort level of, “Hey, I know I’m investing a lot in this space, but at least I understand and have the ability to pick up with it and run at my own discretion.”
Mark:
Yeah. Let’s put that all into context. Could you tell me about Borderless and what your aims are and who you’re working with and all that sort of thing?
Matt:
Yeah. So our ultimate mission of the platform is just to make VR more accessible, more scalable and adaptable by organizations, brands, creators, whoever it might be to get into the VR space. Because we believe in the transformative power of virtual reality and what it can do, especially like I said in the education space and this immersive learning theater that you create by having people 100% involved and immersed in what you’re showing them. And so that’s been the mission of the platform from day one, we started very much in the education space working with a nonprofit group called Act One out of Arizona, delivering virtual field trips to schools. And so it was truly, like I said, an education in a school front, working with students, building an experience that they could receive. And then we’ve evolved into more corporate clients. The largest of which and most notable is Samsung on their home entertainment division, which now relies entirely on our immersive learning platform as their way to educate on new product releases.
Mark:
Do you think Samsung’s really ahead of the pack, or are more companies starting to get into VR? Especially in the HR and training space, in the learning space?
Matt:
Yeah, Samsung’s definitely ahead of the curve, right. I think when they engaged with us several years ago to begin this program, gamification had just started to die out as the buzzword in education and learning development. And people were looking for what was new. And I think they said Samsung went full bore into this solution. And because of it, even just having the novelty factor has amplified, I think, the impact that they’re getting out of it, right? ‘Cause there is, we have seen and done tests with them, and others have done them to show the efficacy of VR training. We have clear impacts to sales, learning, retention numbers using VR versus traditional media. But what you can replicate anywhere is being first to market, right. And I think we’ve certainly in the CE space, seeing Samsung be the first mover here, right. And really taking the market and pushing it forward.
Mark:
So where do you think things go from here? And I think that there’s a couple of parts to that question, but one of which is do you see your presence in the business world growing? Do you see more businesses wanting to use VR for various purposes? What do you think the market’s going to look like in say three to five years?
Matt:
Yep. So there’s no doubt that the release of the Apple headset or at least its announcement this year, and then it’s subsequent coming to market at some point next year will create a massive influx of interests, right? And I think you’re going to see from HR departments to retailers to everybody, sales channels, looking to use it as an engagement tool. Because I said it’s so attractive, right? It is the shiny object, and it’s given this resurgence that happened when the kind of early days like Quest came out in the go, especially when they released something in an affordable price point. And the Apple brand and name will just drive so much more traffic and because of that, you’re going to see lots and lots of new experiments. I’ll call them all experiments because everyone’s going to try to get there very quickly, and no one really knows all the things in power and best way to utilize that technology.
And I think Apple’s technology stack that they’re bringing to the VR market is so much more robust than a lot of what we’ve seen, especially in a standalone headset to date, that we’re just going to be trying things out. And I think that’s what the next 18 months of the market looks like is you’re going to see lots of brands, lots of companies trying new things and seeing what really resonates, right? And then your perspective on the three and five-year is where you’ll see true adoption start to pick up, or you’re going to see Gen-2 and 3 of some of this new hardware that I think starts to enable the experiences that everyone always dreamed of in VR that you always pictured from the movies. Or these things and experiences that are now actually possible via some of the technology that’s coming to market.
So that’s where you’ll really see, I think in three to five years, a very regular presence of the technology, especially in the HR education space where this becomes norm or expected of, “Oh, hey. I’m going to do some interactive virtual learning in my job.” Whether they said it could be as simple as even how you consume media, like the old days of sitting in the back room and front of the TV and pop the tape in and say, watch this for the next four hours. And this is how you do your job is replaced by, like you said, these immersive theaters that are presented to you via headsets to, you said more interactive work of training truly in a virtual job site. And there’s really cool technology to stack on top of that, right. There’s not just the great game models and engines that allow for real time depiction of anything from manufacturing to medical, but we are experimenting with and seeing people have success already starting with soft skills training and using AI to be able to power a dynamic, truly unique experience for each person.
So there’s no such thing as going through the training once and done, right? You can be retrained and get a new experience going through each time to improve your skills.
Mark:
So can you translate all that to your roadmap? I mean, what is it that you’re building or hope to launch within the next say, two years that’s going to sync you up with that?
Matt:
Yeah. I think our goal is to bring to market our next generation of our training tool sets that makes… It’s really all about education back to the HR departments and educators, meaning we’re going to give you more ways to know how people are performing in their quizzes, and what they’re paying attention to, and how much engagement you’re getting, and what content may or may not working. A lot of insights that the headset helps provide, right? We can know where people are gazing, we can understand how long they kept the headset on versus took it off. So it’s not just where they’re moving their mouse around, right? We can truly know what they’re paying attention to, to keep the training going. So we’re really focused on that right now, and that’s coming in January around CES time. We’ll be releasing and kind of showcasing that to a lot of new clients at CES as well as adding additional headset compatibility.
So today, we focus on PICO and the Quest line, Oculus line of products. But we’ll be adding Apple support as well as some other hardware for next year. And then going forward is the first integration of some of our AI connected modules, so as I was talking towards those soft skills. And some of it’s also just generative in creating unique environments so that every time, like I said, you come to get trained, there’s some factor of it that always feels new. We found that really resonates with people when they feel like they’re in a new environment and it’s as simple as just the lobby that they land in, right? And if it’s changed, they’re looking for what’s new, they’re more excited about the training, they’re more engaged. So we want to use some of this generative AI technology to allow that to happen again, dynamically for the end user and without any coding, without any further investment by our customers.
Mark:
Well, Matt, thank you so much. It was great to talk with you. I hope we get to talk again sometime, and I appreciate your time this afternoon.
Matt:
Yeah, look forward to it. Thank you.
Mark:
My guest today has been Matt Robinson, the CEO of Borderless. And this has been PeopleTech, the podcast of the HCM Technology Report. We’re a publication of RecruitingDaily. We’re also a part of Evergreen Podcasts. To see all of their programs, visit www.evergreenpodcasts.com. And to keep up with HR Technology, visit the HCM Technology Report every day. We’re the most trusted source of news in the HR tech industry. Find us at www.hcmtechnologyreport.com. I’m Mark Feffer.
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